"...people saw these things as an inevitable part of religious life and I just don't think that's true." This is what she says after saying she experienced spiritual abuse. I can't even describe how powerful this statement is after what she shares and it is sadly, so true. It makes me realize that the traditions, the systems, the things that can happen in religious communities that are accepted as "the way things are" actually mimic those of abusive families where the cycle too easily can repeat itself behind closed doors. We used to keep those kinds of things wrapped up, private, unspoken. Now it is time to shed light on abuse in religious communities, in religious life, and to look at true healing and reform where it is needed. As for scapegoating the people who ask the hard questions, who call upon conscience, who desire to guard their integrity, this unfortunately is also resonating. I do hope that the Sisters of the Little Way continue to find a path forward where religious life can be healthy and actually promote human flourishing, freedom, and integrity. I pray that other religious communities can learn from this and examine if there are practices, approaches, beliefs, or values they need to let go of in order to allow the Holy Spirit to bring greater light and healing into their communities.
We are both sad and glad that these things resonate with you Emily. You are so right; this is "the way things are" is a red flag phrase when said in a community or institution to dismiss valid concerns.
I hear you, Paul. There is power in conversation and prayer, community and witness, listening and advocating. Those who lack capacity for change are often the very ones God uses to effect change. These sisters are defying the odds and I hope that they are a catalyst God uses for real healing and deep conversion. I would love to see there be greater collaboration between the Sisters of the Little Way and Friends of the Bridegroom, the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious, etc. There is also a LOT of work that needs to be done when it comes to accompanying women (and men I would imagine) who have left religious life. I am grateful for Leonie's Longing for trying to fill in some of that gap. I feel like this work is just getting started. My hope is that these humble beginnings are fruitful beyond what these sisters could ever hope or desire. Thanks for what you do to facilitate healing for those who have suffered.
I'm extremely grateful for this podcast, and these insights disclosed in this episode are comforting. :Comfort my people" and gather the scattered ones is a mandate. And so it is, this podcast serves that purpose.
The human response (not the holy response) to resolve the dissonance that a truth teller unleashes is to silence her. "the problem is you" as the sisters point out the typical response of the scapegoating institution. A call for repentance which is loyalty to God is considered disloyalty to the institution. In order to maintain the power over, the mechanism is scapegoating. When image, money and status are more important than the souls slaughtered by institutional dysfunction (ungodliness) Gods image is assaulted. We don't "protect God" with denial, lies, cover-up. He is glorified in truth telling, it is the work of prophets, a necessary and often despised part of "the family of God". Persecution is guaranteed in a sick and broken institution. The idea of speaking is to heal not harm the institution. It is hope and faith that speaks believing the voice will be heard in a call to conform to His image.
I love this statement "I AM your future" and that insight and how it was learned will save the sanity and lives of survivors of institutional abuse. As a former investigator of mental health professional abuse for a state, I saw the pattern very frequently. Discredit the victim, establish she is mentally ill, and then all accountability is gone for the professional. Whenever an agency director started the conversation with "you know the complainant is crazy right?" (no I didn't know anything but a coverup appeared to be in process)
I love this statement by Sister Aletheia as well "you are being invited" by God to trust. This is where the survivor finds her hope again.
from Frank Ochberg, MD in his work with survivors *the truth thunders in the woods" no matter the pleas to keep it silent.
Thank you, very enlightening and helpful. Especially I thank you for your honesty and openness. I had an experience of this in a religious group and eventually left, now I'm on my own under a perpetual vow of celibacy but not in any community. Leaving was painful and I often wonder if I ought to have stayed to address the concerns troubling me.... but at the time, I simply did not have the words. I tried to talk to my superior and ask a simple thing which spiralled out into issues with my choice of mass to attend and wearing a veil in mass. I was in no way thinking to leave, but my formator left me and would not intervene and I was left trying to express my concerns to my superior by letter. Some helpful confessors let me know God was moving me away. I see now listening to this, I am called to mourn that way of life I imagined I'd have, so as to embrace the one I do have.
This also touched on some issues of sexual abuse - so thank you. I cannot support your mission finanically but I will do with prayer. May God bless you and your mission in the Church
I was in the same congregation as the Little Way sisters for 10 years. Fortunately I never experienced sexual abuse but the level of infantilization in convents was all embracing. The Superior represents God so anything they ask is from Him! This was drilled into us and judging anything was discouraged. I am in touch with a number of exs from that time 1960-1970 and we all had recovery to do. Some did and some did not. Very cultlike. I really relate to the ex cult members.
I’m so sorry for what you experienced Linda. I agree that infantilization is a big issue. It’s the exact word I used when I expressed some of my concerns. Prayers for you and the other women who have suffered similar experiences.
The way you describe the futile project of fitting in to convent culture really hit home with me. A lot of being a Catholic woman felt like this to me when I was younger. Trying to fit a mold but contorting oneself to do so.
You said it so well. More important to protect the institution than the people. It has been nowhere near as hard to forgive the perpetrator who went from her first classroom as a teacher to an insane asylum at the beginning of Christmas break. She was caught in the act multiple times abusing me at least as early as the first week of September. What they did to cover up is impressive. We kids simply didn't matter as long as the religious order was protected. That's where it was.
Sue, we are so sorry for what happened to you. Your initial abuse and betrayal were compounded by further betrayal from precisely the people who were meant to protect you. That is a great suffering to bear. We are so sorry you have had to bear that.
Hi sisters, I've been listening to your podcast and each time it's a dagger in my heart. You know my story that I was ordained with Fr. Dave. I saw signs in the seminary of him "flirting" with sisters in your community and I and my classmates did and said nothing. And I've seen how the Church, which I love, took 10 years to discipline Fr. Gino, a so called living saint. He spiritually and sexualy abused nuns and seminarians. I'm struggling with trusting the Church. In my own diocese now, there are numerous homosexual priest and the diocese does nothing. These priests are in high positions. I feel like I can't say or do anything about it. I have part of my will give money to my former community in gratitude for the spiritual growth given to me. But now I'm reconsidering this gift. Any words of comfort and wisdom would be appreciated. This is why I asked you to call me. 618-709-1763. Thank you Tom Cinque
When you advocate an environment where victims are heard and believed, do you have a structure to prevent underserved blame or retaliation of the accused?
I was a nun for 9 years and I believed that I experienced spiritual and emotional abuse in formation which was poorly addressed; however, I was later accused of abuse by a very wounded novitiate member. Several members of the community rallied around her to emotionally attack and degrade me even though they had previously known me as a kind person. A popular Christian prayer-healer came to our community, and during her conferences she affirmed MY abusers for coming to the defense of this novitiate member who believed that I had victimized her. I lost my reputation, my vocation, and the community that had accepted me.
Will your ministry be able to address the wounds of victims, without causing more victims?
That’s a good question Carrie. We’re not claiming to be a perfect community or better at this than anyone else. We’re just claiming that talking about these issues openly is the first step in prevention. But due process is also important in any safe system.
Ditto! I’d actually just listened to and commented on your previous podcast and much of what I said also related to what you have now said here (I am half way through this latest podcast currently). This is such an important mission you are undertaking, the like of which I have not seen before. It is so needed for these times and to allow the change required to bring forth the true church and allow it to flourish, and for victims to heal and be restored, including in faith. Thank you for all you are doing. All Catholics should listen to your podcast series.
Your story is our story also. The pain of betrayal and persecution by a church we love so much is very difficult. Thank God that it appears He is bringing something good and for change out of it all. It is indeed difficult and scary to share here, but there does not seem to be many other forums for victims to do so. We are of one heart and mind.
No doubt there will continue to be severe repercussions for speaking out truth but God must have called all whom he has, to do this for His reasons. Please continue to pray for us here; we hope next to take our cases to someone else high up in hierarchy (but who is more sympathetic to the abuse suffered by victims than others).
Please God heal us of the trauma and pain that silences us, so that we can all tell our stories with the grace that will enable your true church to emerge. I pray the truth will be heeded. Who knows maybe we will all end up joining your mission dear sisters! Have you ever thought about producing a documentary style televised version of victim stories also?
It might sound silly, but the story of mimetic desire gone wrong via scapegoating followed by honesty recovering the community is the story of KPop Demonhunters. As you were describing scapegoating in the podcast I started crying and immediately thought of that beloved movie. In case you ever need a secular example of this phenomenon resolved.
"...people saw these things as an inevitable part of religious life and I just don't think that's true." This is what she says after saying she experienced spiritual abuse. I can't even describe how powerful this statement is after what she shares and it is sadly, so true. It makes me realize that the traditions, the systems, the things that can happen in religious communities that are accepted as "the way things are" actually mimic those of abusive families where the cycle too easily can repeat itself behind closed doors. We used to keep those kinds of things wrapped up, private, unspoken. Now it is time to shed light on abuse in religious communities, in religious life, and to look at true healing and reform where it is needed. As for scapegoating the people who ask the hard questions, who call upon conscience, who desire to guard their integrity, this unfortunately is also resonating. I do hope that the Sisters of the Little Way continue to find a path forward where religious life can be healthy and actually promote human flourishing, freedom, and integrity. I pray that other religious communities can learn from this and examine if there are practices, approaches, beliefs, or values they need to let go of in order to allow the Holy Spirit to bring greater light and healing into their communities.
We are both sad and glad that these things resonate with you Emily. You are so right; this is "the way things are" is a red flag phrase when said in a community or institution to dismiss valid concerns.
I hear you, Paul. There is power in conversation and prayer, community and witness, listening and advocating. Those who lack capacity for change are often the very ones God uses to effect change. These sisters are defying the odds and I hope that they are a catalyst God uses for real healing and deep conversion. I would love to see there be greater collaboration between the Sisters of the Little Way and Friends of the Bridegroom, the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious, etc. There is also a LOT of work that needs to be done when it comes to accompanying women (and men I would imagine) who have left religious life. I am grateful for Leonie's Longing for trying to fill in some of that gap. I feel like this work is just getting started. My hope is that these humble beginnings are fruitful beyond what these sisters could ever hope or desire. Thanks for what you do to facilitate healing for those who have suffered.
I'm extremely grateful for this podcast, and these insights disclosed in this episode are comforting. :Comfort my people" and gather the scattered ones is a mandate. And so it is, this podcast serves that purpose.
The human response (not the holy response) to resolve the dissonance that a truth teller unleashes is to silence her. "the problem is you" as the sisters point out the typical response of the scapegoating institution. A call for repentance which is loyalty to God is considered disloyalty to the institution. In order to maintain the power over, the mechanism is scapegoating. When image, money and status are more important than the souls slaughtered by institutional dysfunction (ungodliness) Gods image is assaulted. We don't "protect God" with denial, lies, cover-up. He is glorified in truth telling, it is the work of prophets, a necessary and often despised part of "the family of God". Persecution is guaranteed in a sick and broken institution. The idea of speaking is to heal not harm the institution. It is hope and faith that speaks believing the voice will be heard in a call to conform to His image.
I love this statement "I AM your future" and that insight and how it was learned will save the sanity and lives of survivors of institutional abuse. As a former investigator of mental health professional abuse for a state, I saw the pattern very frequently. Discredit the victim, establish she is mentally ill, and then all accountability is gone for the professional. Whenever an agency director started the conversation with "you know the complainant is crazy right?" (no I didn't know anything but a coverup appeared to be in process)
I love this statement by Sister Aletheia as well "you are being invited" by God to trust. This is where the survivor finds her hope again.
from Frank Ochberg, MD in his work with survivors *the truth thunders in the woods" no matter the pleas to keep it silent.
June, 1993
Memory Shouldn't Be
Memory
Shouldn’t be
Shards of a broken dream
Secret pain
Shouldn’t strain
Breathlessly to scream
I know the where
I know the when
I know the who too well
Believe me or believe me not
I have a truth to tell
But Mother, if you cannot hear
I’ll keep your peace
A day, a year. Forever
Your doubt and fear
Convinces me to silence
Your Honor, if the proof you seek
Is rusted, lost
Too old, too weak, forgotten
Then I shall not speak
Dismiss my plea with silence
It matters not who hears the voice
Once I have understood
The thunder of the truth untold
Will echo in the wood
And judges naked in their robes
Will shudder at the gate
How thin the cloth of innocence
Against the chill of hate
Memory
Shouldn’t be
Shards of a broken dream
Secret pain
Shouldn’t strain
Breathlessly to scream
I know the where
I know the when
I know the who too well
Believe me or believe me not
I have a truth to tell
"You lack the peace of Christ."
Are you kidding me?!
Oh, we've got His peace, AND the whip He cracked in the Temple, AND the sword and fire He brought to this Earth!
You. Are. Rockin'. It. Sisters!
Greetings from the Canadian psychiatrist and former Legionary you met at the Metanoia Conference.
Amen. And hello friend, so good to hear from you!
Thank you, very enlightening and helpful. Especially I thank you for your honesty and openness. I had an experience of this in a religious group and eventually left, now I'm on my own under a perpetual vow of celibacy but not in any community. Leaving was painful and I often wonder if I ought to have stayed to address the concerns troubling me.... but at the time, I simply did not have the words. I tried to talk to my superior and ask a simple thing which spiralled out into issues with my choice of mass to attend and wearing a veil in mass. I was in no way thinking to leave, but my formator left me and would not intervene and I was left trying to express my concerns to my superior by letter. Some helpful confessors let me know God was moving me away. I see now listening to this, I am called to mourn that way of life I imagined I'd have, so as to embrace the one I do have.
This also touched on some issues of sexual abuse - so thank you. I cannot support your mission finanically but I will do with prayer. May God bless you and your mission in the Church
We are so sorry for what you experienced, Heidi, and we are so grateful for your prayers.
I was in the same congregation as the Little Way sisters for 10 years. Fortunately I never experienced sexual abuse but the level of infantilization in convents was all embracing. The Superior represents God so anything they ask is from Him! This was drilled into us and judging anything was discouraged. I am in touch with a number of exs from that time 1960-1970 and we all had recovery to do. Some did and some did not. Very cultlike. I really relate to the ex cult members.
I’m so sorry for what you experienced Linda. I agree that infantilization is a big issue. It’s the exact word I used when I expressed some of my concerns. Prayers for you and the other women who have suffered similar experiences.
The way you describe the futile project of fitting in to convent culture really hit home with me. A lot of being a Catholic woman felt like this to me when I was younger. Trying to fit a mold but contorting oneself to do so.
Another hard but essential listen for this survivor in UK. Thank you for your witness and your mission 🙏
You said it so well. More important to protect the institution than the people. It has been nowhere near as hard to forgive the perpetrator who went from her first classroom as a teacher to an insane asylum at the beginning of Christmas break. She was caught in the act multiple times abusing me at least as early as the first week of September. What they did to cover up is impressive. We kids simply didn't matter as long as the religious order was protected. That's where it was.
Sue, we are so sorry for what happened to you. Your initial abuse and betrayal were compounded by further betrayal from precisely the people who were meant to protect you. That is a great suffering to bear. We are so sorry you have had to bear that.
Thank you.
Memento mori spoke to me during my period of grief too! It continues to be an anchor for me.
Hi sisters, I've been listening to your podcast and each time it's a dagger in my heart. You know my story that I was ordained with Fr. Dave. I saw signs in the seminary of him "flirting" with sisters in your community and I and my classmates did and said nothing. And I've seen how the Church, which I love, took 10 years to discipline Fr. Gino, a so called living saint. He spiritually and sexualy abused nuns and seminarians. I'm struggling with trusting the Church. In my own diocese now, there are numerous homosexual priest and the diocese does nothing. These priests are in high positions. I feel like I can't say or do anything about it. I have part of my will give money to my former community in gratitude for the spiritual growth given to me. But now I'm reconsidering this gift. Any words of comfort and wisdom would be appreciated. This is why I asked you to call me. 618-709-1763. Thank you Tom Cinque
We trust Jesus not the church we are believers and still very much fallen in our hearts
It is the exactly the same in this area also. You are not alone. Prayers.
When you advocate an environment where victims are heard and believed, do you have a structure to prevent underserved blame or retaliation of the accused?
I was a nun for 9 years and I believed that I experienced spiritual and emotional abuse in formation which was poorly addressed; however, I was later accused of abuse by a very wounded novitiate member. Several members of the community rallied around her to emotionally attack and degrade me even though they had previously known me as a kind person. A popular Christian prayer-healer came to our community, and during her conferences she affirmed MY abusers for coming to the defense of this novitiate member who believed that I had victimized her. I lost my reputation, my vocation, and the community that had accepted me.
Will your ministry be able to address the wounds of victims, without causing more victims?
That’s a good question Carrie. We’re not claiming to be a perfect community or better at this than anyone else. We’re just claiming that talking about these issues openly is the first step in prevention. But due process is also important in any safe system.
Ditto! I’d actually just listened to and commented on your previous podcast and much of what I said also related to what you have now said here (I am half way through this latest podcast currently). This is such an important mission you are undertaking, the like of which I have not seen before. It is so needed for these times and to allow the change required to bring forth the true church and allow it to flourish, and for victims to heal and be restored, including in faith. Thank you for all you are doing. All Catholics should listen to your podcast series.
Your story is our story also. The pain of betrayal and persecution by a church we love so much is very difficult. Thank God that it appears He is bringing something good and for change out of it all. It is indeed difficult and scary to share here, but there does not seem to be many other forums for victims to do so. We are of one heart and mind.
No doubt there will continue to be severe repercussions for speaking out truth but God must have called all whom he has, to do this for His reasons. Please continue to pray for us here; we hope next to take our cases to someone else high up in hierarchy (but who is more sympathetic to the abuse suffered by victims than others).
Please God heal us of the trauma and pain that silences us, so that we can all tell our stories with the grace that will enable your true church to emerge. I pray the truth will be heeded. Who knows maybe we will all end up joining your mission dear sisters! Have you ever thought about producing a documentary style televised version of victim stories also?
It might sound silly, but the story of mimetic desire gone wrong via scapegoating followed by honesty recovering the community is the story of KPop Demonhunters. As you were describing scapegoating in the podcast I started crying and immediately thought of that beloved movie. In case you ever need a secular example of this phenomenon resolved.